{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/n872v2fk9j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["LAPL Archival Collections - Dale Brockman Davis"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/200/original/lapl_logo.png?1628076950","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Dale Brockman Davis","Rosemarie Knopka"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-10-29"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Dale Brockman Davis, donor of the \"Brockman Gallery Archive\" consisting of materials relating to the Brockman Gallery and its associated ventures, is interviewed by Rosemarie Knopka, Librarian Archivist in the Digitization and Special Collections Department at the Los Angeles Public Library. The interview was conducted on October 29, 2025 in the Octavia Lab at Central Library."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["MPEG-4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["TheirStory"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Dale Brockman Davis, donor of the \"Brockman Gallery Archive\" consisting of materials relating to the Brockman Gallery and its associated ventures, is interviewed by Rosemarie Knopka, Librarian Archivist in the Digitization and Special Collections Department at the Los Angeles Public Library. The interview was conducted on October 29, 2025 in the Octavia Lab at Central Library."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Los Angeles Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Los Angeles Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/200/original/lapl_logo.png?1628076950","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/303/687/small/IMG_0257.jpg?1772062772","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20260225-190590-3byzws.mp4"]},"duration":7403.75467,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/303/687/small/IMG_0257.jpg?1772062772","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-lapl.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/303/687/original/open-uri20260225-190590-3byzws.mp4?1772062529","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":7403.75467,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["TheirStory Transcript (Paragraphs with Speakers) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e This is Rosemarie Knopka. Today is Wednesday, October 29th, 2025. I am interviewing Dale Brockman Davis for the first time. This interview is taking place in the Octavia Lab at the Central Library of the Los Angeles Public Library. Hello, Dale. Could you please state your name and where you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3.08,23.76"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Dale Brockman Davis, and I was born 1945, in Tuskegee, Alabama.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=24.52,32.479"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you please describe your childhood? Where did you grow up and what was your family life like? For example, your religion, siblings, hobbies and interests? Where and how did you spend your free time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=34.56,48.16"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Um, well, first of all, born in Tuskegee gave me a different look at life in general in that Tuskegee is a college town named after um. Well. Tuskegee Institute, which was part of the Booker T Washington, George Washington Carver legacy of Tuskegee. And that has its own series of controversies depending on your political persuasions. And, you know, when I've had these kind of conversations before, uh, if the person was very political, they would immediately try to get me to address where did I stand in relationship to those individuals? Uh, which for me, was I felt like, unfair because I'm just a kid. I'm just I'm born there, and I've I've grown into that culture. So, uh, people that I've done interviews for before if have problems with me. If they had an agenda already set up, uh, they could have other problems with me because of whatever personality issues or, you know, everybody brings something to the table and you don't always know what they're bringing, which is, um hmm, something to keep in mind. You know, as we travel through life, you just don't know. Um, attitudes change. Values change. There's just so much that's gone on since I was born. Um, and since we're on that issue of when, when and where you were born. Um, I'm at the proud moment in my life where I have a birthday coming up and I'm getting ready to turn 80 years old, which to me is a gift in itself because life is short and some people get a early start with goals and other things that they want to do with their life, which I'm a part of that grouping. I was very fortunate to be really focused, really young, and because I've lived such a full, incredible life already, I come fully packed, for lack of a better expression. Um. Religion, uh, I was. Part of the grand experiment of religions in that my father was Catholic. My mother was Methodist. Um, we lived near an Episcopal church at some point in my life. And so I've had a very eclectic look at organized religion and it's affected me a great deal really, because as I've helped to raise my grandchildren, they went to Catholic school, so I was used to certain rituals related to it. And there are so many. Um, and then to public school and then, you know, public school offers its own set of criteria depending on who's in charge and what their influences are. So it could be it could be almost anything at this point. Um, and I just my goal is, is to try to stay open to all of it because there's no one answer. There's no one correct answer. Um, I'm kind of a universalist kind of person. I'm willing to go and look and listen, hold my opinions back, which you must do if you're, you know, very much involved with the Catholic Church because I learned that really well with my daughter having gone to, uh, after public school, she went to Baldwin Hills Elementary School, and then, uh, she went through traditional schools after that. And then, um, her daughter, first kid, second kid. Now I'm getting the numbers confused because we're also blended family. So we have a son. I have a son who's now 19. And so depending on how you hear the story, you will try to align the names with the periods, with the children, with the religious factors involved. And it can be confusing. So to be honest, uh, keep an open mind during this interview because I, um, I cross a lot of different borders and made a lot of steps. Uh, personally, in terms of what is religion and what is its importance and why, and all the things that we garner and think about as we as we get older, because it's all fluid and it changes. Definitely changes. Um, uh, hobbies. Um. I'll start with youngest days. I was a, um, real curious young kid in that I had a lot of room in the small town of Tuskegee, and so I was the kid who my parents weren't quite sure about me. Because my feeling about them was I didn't need to talk because they talked and they talked so much. That's not a negative. It's just a what is. My father was a professor at the university and my mother was a librarian. Hence, talkers paid to talk, paid to be clear, paid to answer questions clearly. Um, and then my brother Alonzo, uh. He was the first, I guess, kind of radical change to their lifestyle, which happens with all first siblings. And so he was a real challenge for them because, um, he was he was already of a different generation, and it doesn't take long. They were both older parents, by the way. They didn't have children right away, and they were a very traditional couple to the point where, some of the letters that I've read, I have read - I'm a collector of of things and notes and stories. Uh, so what we're doing today is part of a lifestyle. And so actually have letters that my father wrote to my mother during the courtship. And if you read the letters, you would think. And you stop reading the letters at a certain point, you would think that this was a match made in heaven. There was nothing like it. It would never be anything else like it to replace it. But of course, life changes that. Uh, because over time, um, it did dissolve into a separation and eventual divorce, which, you know, you as the child are trying to understand. Um. Because in all situations, almost all situations, the child is the innocent one and the child doesn't know. And the parents are, are trying to protect the child because the child is the innocent one. And there's a. You know, there's a there's a potential for, for brewing, um, nightmare challenge, disappointment. And I've lived all of those things to come out of this, to realize that all relationships should not continue, even though they might be started in the best with the best intentions. Um, and you see that throughout your life, the people you work with, the people who have entrusted their. Trust in you and gift you with things that you sometimes were surprised that they would give to you with. Like for example, as a as an aside, um, because I became a ceramics teacher, but I also taught other subjects in other classrooms. In order for me to be able to leave the campus at Dorsey High School, which is where I taught, but it was also where I went to school. So there were these moments of synchronicity that are kind of like unnerving for some people, including my past students, who are like, how could you, how could you go back and teach at the same school that you attended? And they're so young that they don't realize that life on the walkway changes so much that you don't have the same look, you don't have the same purpose. You, your gifts that you have to share, change. It's just an incredible walk. And, um, I have been gifted with the walk of being a part of my community from the time that I came to California in 1955, when my parents split. My mom put us on a train, which was, uh, that's a whole storyline in itself to actually travel across the United States by train during that period of time. And so I may refer to things that, that, um, no longer exist because they either, the name is changed, or the role of the person has changed. For example, the term redcap is, it's just somebody would think, oh, depending on their immaturity or lack of knowledge, would think something related to, uh, colors of different gangs. Why was it called a redcap? Why is it blue? Why does it have to be blue? And that can that can put you in a situation of, um, intense scrutiny, depending on who you are, where you are, what you say, how you say it. You know, there are just so many things that are like, as I as I speak to you, I think it's really kind of unfair because you have experiences that no one else has. What do you do with that? You know, because you're you're trying to be objective and you're telling a story. And now I'm telling a story that's, uh, going to be recorded, taped and used for other people and other places. It's a gift and a curse. It depends on how you enter the picture. That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of this question that we've written, uh, what is there a piece of this that you'd like me to speak on more, or are you ready to move to another another part?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=49.8,783.58"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, let's move on. Okay. Um, yeah, that was a great answer and really thorough. So thank you so much. Thank you. Um, I know you've spoken a bit about, um, the occupations of your parents, but, um, I know you have a really fascinating family story, so I was wondering if you'd if you'd like to speak more about the educational background and occupational history of your parents, as well as other generations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=783.62,810.18"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e In African American child. Um, the influence of well-educated set appearance. Set appearance is a marker, um, and it, um, it adds attention to your life because your parents expect you to live up to their standard, which I'm grateful that they had the standard that they had. Um, also, you know, um, was resistant to the fact that there was tension about now, what are you going to do? You know, you got these parents that are, you know, obviously quite middle class. Other people can decide if it's upper, lower or lower, upper, middle, middle, upper and whatever that's all about. That's that's a whole nother personal journey and and subject to interpretation. But that fact it does exist that I am a part of that upbringing. And so. Friends of the family are also highly educated. All a part of the was also known as, uh, you know, Tuskegee and the Institute and so many different things were going on in and around Tuskegee at that time that as a child, you didn't know, you know, the so-called Tuskegee experiment, the things that I think for the sake of the interview and those friends and family and colleagues and students of history will need to do some reading to get a thorough and broad understanding of what I'm alluding to. But, you know, this is a part of my history and one that I'm proud of and, you know, never, um, hid from it, but knew that it had, um, strengths and weaknesses and, um, things that I was surprised to find out over time. Um. Children that were, to me, just children, not knowing that some of the children had issues with, um genetic issues that they inherited. They had nothing to do with it other than being that that those things being transferred to them as children. But because a kid walked funny didn't mean anything to me as a kid. It was just who that kid was. And so what? He walks funny. Maybe. Maybe he stutters. Maybe he doesn't speak or she doesn't speak. You know, all of those things to you as a kid or there are, like inconsequential. It's just another child. So with that as a basis, remembering now I'm talking about 0 to 10 years old where I could leave the house. And disappear into what was known as the cow pasture, which was, uh, um, might have been unincorporated land attached to where the house was, where I could just disappear for hours on end and my parents would wonder, uh, and the quote was, where's that little one? Right. It was like I was out playing, right, and innocent with a surrounding that, you know, when I, when I relive part of my life as a young kid, it was very unusual to be left alone to my own devices for that long a period of time, for hours and hours and hours during the day. That doesn't happen. So, you know, I do know I represent a different look, a different life experience, which for the sake of this interview, I think is extremely important because it's all relative, you know, and what you remember, uh, and what you're, how you're guided to talk about what you remember. You know, those are very consequential conversations to have. So I haven't gotten completely off track, but I have touched on some things that I think are very important because without it, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know that much about me. You would assume that, okay, you, whoever gets a chance to hear the interview and maybe see his photograph and realizes, does the voice line up with a person who's about to be 80 years old? Does the attitude line up with the voice, with the visual? With the stories? I mean, this continuum that's, that is relative to this interview, I think is very, very important for the sake of posterity. And who's going to look at this? I mean, I'm, uh, I'm very proud, really, through and through to be able to be in a position to do this. Um. Huge gift. And thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=810.26,1156.27"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yes, for us too. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1156.31,1159.55"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah. So, you know, continuing to earn my gift, uh, I would like to earn it. Even better yet, by answering another question or or, um, I can give you maybe a deeper story or let me switch to a story that I think should be fascinating. George Washington Carver, uh, was a major influence in my life as a child, but also as a full grown adult, because there was a recent exhibit, um, that came through California African American Museum focusing on the life and times and stories, showing artifacts and and things related to the things that he produced, studied that when I saw it, I was first, I was, it was a compliment. And then it was like, no, you don't know enough. And so now I'm like, now I'm like trying to find the people who produced it, to let them know that they had missed a lot of the what should have been on the boat of the life of George Washington Carver. And so having that and being an educator, I realized that, okay, well, there are things about him that you, you think you know, but do you really know? And so, because I'm also the child of a librarian and a research person, and my father, I went to the library. Here I am again reliving lifestyle and influences, and checked out other stories in George Washington Carver's hand. Stories that I was shocked to read and realize that, um, how well educated he was, his kind of perseverance. I was like, wow, what a model. And I'm thinking now, I had this person as a model, but, but truly, I didn't know until I was 80 years old, 70, 79, 78 years old, the depth of this man. And so, you know, with now with more knowledge, I'm like part of the super fantastic zone of knowing things about him that in the spirit of the conversation, uh, was phenomenal. Because I remember vials in the museum that were, like, tinted red for certain reasons and tinted blue for certain reasons, because they would highlight some part of his studies that would only show up given that kind of background. So it's like, is this photography related? Is this, is this related to vision as it as we know it? And I'm sure all of it is a part of that, uh, that basis. But, or and I was totally fascinated with reading about him, and to hear in his voice, in his, in his handwritten notes, what he thought about certain challenges that he had as a Black man in America, as a scientist, as a person who was, like, not believed, as a person who was also believed by, uh, Congress people, they, they he was such a fascinating character that I I realized that, you know, if I had a choice to come back and relive my life as a another person, I would like to be a piece of George Washington Carver's history, you know? And that's, uh, that's something to think about, you know, for a person like that. Now, mature with a basis to say it and not just be flippant and go, you know, it would have been nice. That doesn't mean anything. Anything could be nice. But to sincerely feel like I, I would like to have relived a part of his life. Oh, my goodness gracious. That put you to sleep, make you wake up and think about it some more. So yeah. So phenomenal things by being a, a student of history, being just a student of life and wanting to know. The curious thinker. We're not trying to know more, just trying to know more. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1160.11,1463.48"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you so much for that story. Yeah, sure. Um, so you've spoken a little bit about it. Um, but would you like to, to share more about how your family migrated to California?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1466.96,1477.68"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, maybe a little repetition in there. So, um, the mystery of families from that era, you didn't tell your children that you weren't getting along. So that was the first and foremost. So my brother and I never knew. We just figured everything was okay. And then all of a sudden, we used to spend summers in Birmingham because we had two aunts that lived in Birmingham. Um, my Aunt Clara and my Aunt Sarah. And so when they left what's known as the Old South, you couldn't leave as a single woman, a single woman of color, because it meant that you were, uh, I'm trying to choose my words wisely. You were loose. And so that's to be interpreted by whoever hears this and thinks about the word loose. What is a loose woman and what does that mean? And, uh, the seven sisters were not loose. They were all very intelligent, very wise, uh, very team based women. Um, and then there were the boys. And we always knew that there was a different standard between what was expected of the girls and what was expected of the boys. And so Alonzo and I used to always refer to the aunts as the girls for a very decided reason. And then there were the boys, and then the differences in what was allowed based on gender. So we were getting these references and valuations of what it is to be of a gender. Which for this period of time is a good point of discussion, because it is now a real point of discussion where people don't want to. They're, they're, uh, they're shy about claiming any, any gender or all genders. And so to me, that's all kind of like a a mystery. I'm still interpreting and trying to understand it, and I don't have a problem with maybe not knowing or trying to understand yourself in a, you know, with a maybe a different body than you thought you had or the fact that you could change your body. And all those things that come with the with the openness of a new world, you know. Um, uh, Aldous Huxley kind of. Wait a minute. What are we talking about? What, what, what is this here? That we're, what are we really focusing on? Um. And for me, it's only fair that that all things be put on the table. Let's just be honest. I'm not trying to value you based on your story. I just want to understand who you are. So talk to me. Be honest. I could not like you before I meet you. And I could not like you when I finish. That's fair too. You know nothing's promised. You know it's all, you know, it is a crapshoot. And it is all a live experience. Like this conversation is live. Um. And I'm sure that, um, when this conversation is listened to and spoken about, there'll be some reflective, um, discussion based on this, which is good, which is, I think, the point of us having this interview and this, this time together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1482.2,1740.96"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, definitely. Um, so shall we move on to your family. Your family arrived in Los Angeles and which neighborhood did you settle in as a family? And which neighborhoods have you lived in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1741.96,1760.88"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, so we moved to Los Angeles, um, from Tuskegee via Birmingham. Birmingham was kind of like the, um, the launch point because we would spend summers in Birmingham when my dad would be doing special workshops and seminars and studies and, um, my mom had more time with us, and so she would bring us, but she would also bring us in and she would leave or she would be there and maybe she would invite some of the other sisters. And so it was, it was a matriarchy that was working, you know, the new lease on life. But we were not sheltered from the men in their lives, the men that they knew. I'm sure that the intent was, we want to make sure that these these kids that we have, that, um, we share as much as we can with them because this is for them. It was a new world, because, remember, now they're leaving the old South. And to quote the new South, which is not necessarily different, except that you own your own home and maybe you have a car, maybe you don't, but you have now. You have access to transportation and freedom to do and move around. You know, the way that you need to move in a, you know, I won't I won't call Birmingham a cosmopolitan city, even though all of these major things were happening, because it was such a central location for civil rights and humanity rights, you know, all of those kinds of things. Um, and we were able to meet some very interesting people. Um, one of those people, um, grew up in Anniston, and I have to stop and think about his name. Goodson, I believe, and he was the first true wealthy Christian, quotation mark, millionaire that we knew because he started from nothing, and a traditional route for him was, um, based on a whole racist attitude, which was, how are people of color buried in a small racist town like Anniston? And so, uh, he had a funeral home. Well. Being a multimillionaire and a funeral home now is no surprise. Because if you extend that, that equation out and you look around real close, the people who have, um, positions in that industry, and it is in industry, they have money, they own their mortuaries, and they own all the things related to, to the process of, of life and death. And that's a mouthful. But it's, it's a, it's a truthful mouthful. So here, you know, here, here we are in the midst of all of that. And my mom is realizing that, you know, things have not gone the route of the, uh, the love letters, which I think I mentioned that, you know, in going through, um, chests of ephemera that my aunt had kept, she was the historian, the Aunt Louise person. Um, I had kept them because my mother had said these are things that are family related, which is a way of saying, don't, don't give them away. Don't throw them away. Don't treat them lightly, these are yours. You are now in charge of the family history. You know, I'm rolling my eyes. I'm, you know, the camera's on, but the voice is speaking and I'm realizing, oh, my goodness, this is more than I asked for. In fact, I did not ask for it, but because I was chosen to be the person to receive it. And I'm a serious kind of person. What I'm going to do but the best, the very best I can do. So up to, um. Last year, I was still opening chests and finding ephemera that, uh, I had to also figure out for the sake of my my daughter and her family. What am I going to do with all of this? You, you're, you're trying to get it out of your garage. And to me, because I'm the, I'm the proper recipient of it, and I'm trying not to be resentful, but I'm feeling the pressure of my, my daughter and her new family needing space, three kids, husband, wife and a family and, you know, a few pets. And so, but, that was the perfect person for it because I was the person who was not moving around a lot. My brother had, had moved from, uh, when the gallery closed. And that's a whole nother segment of our interview. Um, he had moved to Sacramento. Um. And. Do good. We're doing good. Um, and so now I'm in charge of all family related, uh, ephemera, gifts, uh, everything. And so what do you do with that? Well, if you realize that you were chosen, where are you going to do with that? I mean, the idea of it is, you know, take the words literally. You were chosen. Well, you're not chosen for some, some lightweight reason. You're chosen for very challenging reasons that it's complimentary, but it's also damning in that you got to deal with it. Right. And it's in your face right here, right now. So if you don't have a good sense of humor, you're in trouble with this. And so, uh, I'm glad to have a good sense of humor. I plan to keep a good sense of humor because I think, uh, you know, it's the only way. It's the only way in. And it's the only way out of this, this life, this world. So, you know, take the best avenue. And, uh, I'm trying to do just that. Um, so we packed, uh, we weren't told we were going on this extended trip. We were told basically we were going on vacation, but we were going to an old school. South old school parents. Um, so we, we, um, we packed chicken in a basket and some other odd things. I don't really remember what they were, but mostly, you know, we, we came from, we left Birmingham and went to Michigan. And then from Michigan on the train, we came to Los Angeles. Um, and at that point my favorite uncle, whose name was Stephen Moses, also known as Bud uh, was a person on track to say, okay. Excuse me. This is what you need. This is how you pack. Don't worry about anything. You just look for me at the train station, and, um, I'll be there. So, you know, when we got to LA, he was there. He was, you know, waiting for us in his coat. Red cap, which is what they wore as, uh, a signature of who they were in relationship to the train because it was still like a racist, uh, institution and means of travel. So you couldn't just mix. You didn't just go anywhere you wanted to. He was working for the railroad. And so if you extend that question out, and what was that like for my research people? I invite you to to read about red caps, what they did, how they did it, what kind of challenges they had. It's, uh, which I found myself needing it because I knew that he was a red cap, but I was missing bulk, a bulk of the story. And so, you know, he was kind of like the gift that kept on giving. Um, he was also, you know, he was also one of those people who, um, now we call them brainiacs, but extremely intelligent, very wise, very curious person who, when he came around, you know, my mom and aunt when they had moved to California, he was always talking about Andrew Mellon and the Vanderbilts. And, you know, uh, the people with big money who always had big money. And he intended us for us to at least be aware of the names, not necessarily the details of the history, but he was giving us clues as to a different kind of basis than these quote, you know, like inexperienced country kind of country based, you know, um, neophytes. Um, and to this day, I bless him for that gift because, um, and then so because of that and because I am a reader and I'm a curious person, oh, now I've got to read about red caps and what they went through. And, uh, uh, the gifts, they had to be red caps and to play the game because they were in the game with, with, with these people. Right. The wealthy people, because only the wealthy could ride the train and be in a in a car with housing. Oh my goodness. What is that? Once again, it's rhetorical question for for all my brainiacs. I appreciate you so much, but do the research and I think you will be a better person for it. Um, and I think it will add, uh, quality, not just quantity, but quality to the stories that we're sharing today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1761.56,2497.46"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Definitely. So you you mentioned that Stephen Moses was your favorite uncle. Did you spend a lot of time together or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2501.1,2510.74"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, he was. He loved these sisters, Agnes and Louise combo. He, he just truly loved. And so whatever his particular choice of sisters to guide, I'm sure he didn't, um, guide just them, because he wasn't that kind of person. Was a total magnanimous individual with knowledge. I mean, it's like, who is this guy? Um, and you always felt like you should have been taking notes, but it was never formal. It was. It was more of. I'm your uncle. I'm your uncle, Bud. I'm here. Maybe he didn't say it, but it was like. Because now my parents, my parents, my true parents now are like Agnes and Louise. And he's older than them. And so I know he's thinking of himself in a, a different, a kind with a different perspective because one, he one is male, two, he's older than they are and more experienced for the most part Because I do want to talk about my Aunt Louise, uh, and her experiences. He would want to play football with us. And he did the best he could, um, to do that. Excuse me. Um, but, you know, he's a, he's different. This is a different era. Smart as a tack. And, um. He was the kind of man that if he could have invested based on the knowledge he had, um, he would have been one of those people who had money that you wouldn't believe he had so much of, because he had all he had inside information. And that's, that's one of the gifts that can be extracted, used, received if you have advance information about markets and money. And, you know, um, and so part of my curiosity about life, including money and markets and investments, is based on my father, but also based on Uncle Bud as I, as I think about it and speak about it. And I'm glad to remember that, uh, he plays a critical part in that. Um, and I've had successes based on those two influences. My dad was a person who people didn't, they just couldn't understand. Um, he never believed in owning property. Now, in this day and age, that's kind of like, what do you mean? How can somebody live this life, do well, and not own property? That's, it's kind of like a non sequitur. Um. And if you don't own it, why not? And are you thinking about it? I mean, it is, it's now like, probably the biggest dividing principle between the, between the haves and the have nots and poverty and extravagance. So, you know, you put those two concepts together. You have a lot to think about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2510.9,2755.67"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it's wonderful that your family was such a huge part of your education. Yeah. Um, you mentioned that you went to you attended Dorsey High School. Is that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2757.83,2772.75"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e I attended? Well, I went I went to public school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2773.03,2775.63"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2775.91,2776.39"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, what was so I, you know, moved to, moved to Los Angeles at age ten. And I think one of the most interesting stories that I, I have is that because I moved to Los Angeles and I moved to the neighborhood that I moved to, that I still really live within like 2 or 3 miles of now, um, I had a real world immersion into culture because my, I guess it was fifth grade. Fifth grade, sixth grade, um, experience was you were either African American or the big surprise was you were Japanese, or you fit what's now known as other because you, you, you didn't have enough information to know that the rest of the population was from the world source. It just happened to be. Without money, and therefore would be lumped in, pushed in, uh, lovingly. So to the multicultural world that we have now. And it's like, I think about it now. It's like, what a gift that was, right? And so as part of that story, I, I couldn't understand why, uh, the Japanese kids would always separate from us in a, in a kind of like a un, um, conventional way at the end of the school day, every day. And it was like, well, I don't understand. We played all day. We read together. We, we, we, we joke, we share lunch. But at 3:00 or whatever the time was that we got out of school, they completely disappeared. They walked away and they went to Japanese school. They went to language arts school because they had learned the hard way, and their parents had sense enough to, to gather them to go, you know what? You're not going to lose your base culture. We've seen that and we've seen the intention of it. And so, like, I'm learning this on the fly. I'm going, wait a minute. What do you mean, what? No. No, wait. No, you couldn't be telling the truth. But it was the naked truth. Um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2777.79,2925.71"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e What neighborhood was this, Dale?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2928.27,2929.71"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e This is the Avenue's, Second Avenue. I went to to Sixth Avenue Elementary School, and then I went to Foshay Junior High School. And in that same group of of children went to Foshay. Unless they did not come back. There were, there was a group that did that. Uh, they were in Torrance and Gardena. It took me a while to figure that one out, who I would speak with, and they would go, no, that was not our experience. We were in Gardena. And so that became like, oh, let me find out about more about Gardena. And now that I really know Gardena, I know more than the average bear about Gardena, Torrance and the possibilities of what they went through. And maybe a more positive aspect, because at least they got to maintain their cultural base wherever it is that they shifted to move. And so. Life is, is, is a journey. And it's like, keep your eyes open all the time because there's just when you think you know it or know it all, or you think you know it all, you know you don't know nearly enough. And so, um. That's been an advantage for me in terms of staying open and realizing that we're on this relative track and it's all subject to change and quick change. Um. I could, I could lead this, this story into a lot of different subjects. But just as a, as a kind of like a taste bud taster tester, I'll move to Leimert Park. Well, we moved from a traditional African American neighborhood that also included some Japanese people to, um, Leimert Park. And so we moved from, uh, a bungalow property next door to the family that we knew was living here in LA, who helped give us ideas about coming to LA and a place to stay and a place to recover from the tragedies and the tenseness and the the madness of, you know, families that split up. And so we stayed, you know, in a one, it was like a studio apartment, like a one bedroom. And they had three of us. And now, you know, now you're talking about, um, I'm now, okay, 10, 11. So it makes Alonzo 13, 14, 15. And he's now, uh, going through the trials of, wait a minute, you didn't tell me this. Now we're here when I was last at home, Tuskegee. Um, and I happened to be left handed, and I happened to be, uh, trying out for pitcher and to be a left handed pitcher in your beginning. teenage prime. Anything other than that lifestyle is like an abomination. And so what happens there is you have what now, you have what we call teenage resistance. And so he was gathering a different steam than my steam. My steam was a role that said, uh, yeah, you're still young, but you're very consequential in terms of your relationship to your family unit, which was my mother, my brother and the family that was hosting us. That's a lot. You know, ten, 11, 12 years old. But if that's your role and you are serious like I am and trying to, um, assert leadership in that role and a new role, you got, you've got a lot of shoulders that you're leaning on. And so. You know, now your brother's looking at you funny, too, because you haven't bought into the fact that you have really moved. I bought into it because I know we're not going back. My brother is still leaning toward, uh, being ripped away. It's like, you know, something kind of primal about it, which I understand. So, you know, you've got a family dynamic now that's like, um, real. And so, you know. I won't say I'll do it. I would do it again in a heartbeat that way. But I'm proud to say that I was able to master the conditions that were, I was confronted with, which is, this is life and this is your life. You know, kind of like an old, that old program. This is your life. Kind of corny, but, um, in many ways tragically real. So take it as it as it shows up. So what are you going to do? Um, and because of that kind of formative life, I've had that kind of formative attitude that I've carried forward to probably any and everything I do. So what? This is yours? What are you going to do? You know, um, probably down to this interview. You got me now, Rosemarie and the Library and, um, I have no, um, no setbacks. No, no, uh, no, no odd thoughts about why did I do it or, you know, any of that? I'm, I'm proud to the moment. I'm your, I'm your proud person. Right. And because we've developed a relationship that's, uh, in its own way, uncanny. And maybe people on your staff may or may not understand it, and that's for, that's, that's room for them to grow. And that's just how I see it. Um. I will take charge if I have to take charge or if there's a need to take charge. That's just who I am. Um, I don't have a problem with it, and, you know, I think it's a good thing when all is said and done, it's a good thing. And so, no problem. It's like, you can like me. You can not like me. It doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with like, dislike. It's like, take it as it, as it, as it appears, as it shows up, you know? And, um. Ask me another pointed question because I'm pointing back. And how was our time? It's our time. Still good?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2930.67,3416.09"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, yeah, we're doing pretty well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3416.53,3418.81"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e As you can tell, I already have a lot to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3422.13,3423.89"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e This is wonderful. Thank you so much. Um, yeah. So now I'm kind of a little bit curious about your relationship with Alonso now, as you're, like, kind of, you know, growing towards young adulthood. And, um. Were you, were you close during your... We","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3424.77,3442.61"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e were very close. But not. Not maybe as alike as, as maybe Alonzo would like us to have been. I don't know, I can't get in his mind to, you know, and if he were here to speak, uh, I'm sure you would be in the audience would be, uh. Impressed? He's a character, you know, and he was very clear about, you know, the things that he was clear about. And we had our differences. And, um. But I was also the younger kid. It was like, I was not going to be dominated. And so, you know, we had our issues. Um. We didn't always get along famously. But, but the bottom line was, wherever the goals were, what the, what the bigger goals were, were like, we were always in tandem. It's like we could forget about, oh, you know, you this and you that, or, you know, this bothers me about you or immaterial. Not important. That's surface. And so that was a gift. I don't know who to give to, but it was there, and it's still here. Um. But, you know, we had our, we had our challenges, and, you know, we did other things that were like, I would do things to spur him on, and he would try to counteract, I'd say, counter, because he always thought that he was the dominant one, but he didn't realize that I might not have been overtly the dominant one. I had a plan all the time for myself and for him, because I was determined that, uh, the things that I did not find so positive about him, I was not going to allow that to change me. And so it's like, you know, you, everyone has their personal standards, and you always have situations and families where you have to walk away. And your best solution is to walk away with a smile. It doesn't mean you have to be in agreement. Um, but when all is said and done, when, when, when there's a common goal which became Brockman Gallery, it was like, oh yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. This is what we're going to do. And this is what it's going to take. And so now as I open up this part of the conversation, it opens really wide. The whole story about, well, where did the name come from? And the name came about because we had an open conversation with my mom and my Aunt Louise about the fact that we were going to open a gallery, period. And at that point, Alonzo, I think, had just finished or was in the middle of his life as a student at Pepperdine College, when Pepperdine, I'm always proud to say, was located on the African-American side of town. It was not on the green grasses of the Pepperdine we know. And to this day, I still get shock value that people think that Pepperdine was, was started where it is now and it wasn't. And it was a multicultural kind of school, religious base. You had to go to, uh, I forget, I didn't, I didn't go to that kind of school, so I don't know what it's called, so I don't want to misname it, but, um, basically, you know, you had to go to prayer. You had to do things that fall within the Catholic or religious experience of Pepperdine. And it was a fundamentalist school. It was kind of like a Church of God in Christ school, which is real conservative. And thank goodness that he was an artist, because I don't know what his life would have been like if it had been some other kind of traditional education. Um, so at least, you know, I, I'll take back the, at least it's a good thing that he was in art, and that he had the kind of influence he had at Pepperdine. Um, and they were, they represented a different life, different culture. One of his best instructors has an interesting name that you might, you may have heard before. His name was Mr. Yanci. Have you ever heard that name before?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3442.61,3760.42"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e I haven't, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3760.46,3761.38"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, so it's an Eastern European name and it's j a n, and I'm not sure the spelling of the rest. We'll look it up so that we as the taskmasters of, uh, of proper information, correct information. We'll have it because it can be found. But he was Mr. Yanci, heavy accent, very talented. And then he had another professor whose name was Mr. White, which we always laughed about because it just kept us, you know, the racist jokes that can come about with with your boss named White. It's like, okay, we'll joke about this, but it was true. Um. But they were good to him. They were. You know, they really did help him find his, uh, skill set and the things that he did. Because, you know, he also was an artist. And, um. So back to the Brockman part. So when we were talking about the fact that, okay, we finished school, I'm in the middle of maybe a senior year at USC. Uh, and we're sitting around and we're talking about it and my parents. And so I say now, my parents and I always have to really make a clear delineation, because now that we're in a, a word of, or a period of, well, what does that mean? Your appearance. Um, well, it was my mom and my aunt, their names were Agnes and Louise. Well, were they, you know, who was Agnes and Louise? That's two women. And they were your parents. And so you have to delineate at this point in our lives, we have to, like, be clear about who these people are, because this is their lives. And so you have to not be on the slippery slope of language and have misunderstanding take place because you were not as careful about it as you needed to be. And so I always take the time to explain that because slippery, is slippery and slippery slope world out there. So, you know, in discussing the gallery, we decided, you know, we have enough skills between us, Alonzo and I, that we can open up our own gallery because we're already seeing that the gamesmanship related to, um, what are you going to do? And where, where are you going to show your work. And that's a, that's a, that was a big piece. And so the discussion was we're going to create our own gallery. Well, what are you going to call it. Where are we going to call it? Brockman. And so it was like, well, and I'm sitting off to the side going, no, no, no, no, don't put this on me. I'm Brockman. But the decision was a committee based decision, which is like, well, you've got the name, you've got the family name, you've got the name that people will remember, you know, and all those, you know, discussions. And I mean, like, those discussions are so alive to me even now. It's like, without a doubt it was, there was no choice. Right. And so it became Brockman Gallery. Um. And then and then the challenge was, how do we man, uh, a gallery with no experience. And so now we get to go back in time and go, well, we need a gallery because, we, there were no galleries when we came to LA. And so our experience with gallery life and, uh. exhibits now goes back. Now we have to hearken back to where were our first experiences with gallery life. And so now come my notes to make sure that I don't miss anybody. Um. So. We have people like. Betye Saar, who's already a part of this, uh, gymnasium that's having an exhibit of African American or Black artists in Watts. And Will Rogers Park gymnasium is where this took place. And so it became like a marker for the beginning of the genesis of a Black Arts Movement. And then, I mean, just to say Black Arts Movement, that's a whole nother conversation that we will have, that I look forward to having because, uh, other people want to plan your life. Other people want to take over your life. Other people want to get credit for your life. And so when that kind of situation comes up, I'm like, oh, okay. Oh, are we ready? Are we, have we rolled up our sleeves now. Because now you got fight on your hands because it's apparent you really don't know the history. And so, to be able to speak about people like John Riddle, John Outterbridge, um, Charles White, Bill Pajaud, Ruth Waddy, Francis Williams. Noah Purifoy. Um. These were formative. These were people, these were cultural based people who knew the importance of African American culture, um, before we did. They were older. They had been through whatever it is, many, many things that they had been through and knew the importance. And so, you know, Will Rogers Park became like, the place. And 66 Signs of Neon, which was the Noah Purifoy stepped back in time, which was also so futuristic that it it's still now something people, people are still talking about, still trying to, um, get a head space around it to understand. Well, that's what started when and why are we still talking about it now? And just like, think about it, you know, things are done for a reason. And, uh, this this was a very formative reason. And so it brought people that they knew to the table who were not not necessarily artists, visual artists, but maybe, um, uh, advanced cultural icons. And so you come up with me, you know, names like Francis Williams that, uh, again, for my students of history. Look these people up and you'll be doing a lot of reading and a lot of writing your experience, because, uh, we were so fortunate to have a different generation guiding us. You know, of course, we had attitude also because we had gone through what we had gone through as students of the system and all the lessons learned there. Um. To the point where, my experience at SC was, was, uh, so interesting to me because I could see where racism was alive in America at SC, and my mom was a person who, having grown up in Old South, was like, she would always she wasn't. She was a subtle piece of work, but but, um, in-your-face in a gentle way, reminding you that you are this, you are alive in America today, And there are things you cannot forget, you know. And so she would every now and then just say little things like, you know, just, just remember, you're, um, you're a Black man in America, which is, you know, out of a little soft, gentle kind of personality person, you kind of like, why are you telling me this? I know this, but it was her way of saying, be careful. Don't assume the smiling face is the smiling face. Uh, and so I have been that person. I have embodied that kind of messaging, um, to almost to a fault, uh, to the point where I realized that there would be things that I would need to do that were not quite kosher and that I, uh, in a different setting would brag about. But because of the sake of of the recording and, uh, I wanted to be used in the most positive manner, I will, I won't include details of things that I would do to make sure that I was covered, that I was getting the best of all circumstances presented to me. Um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3761.42,4399.07"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e So the gallery was kind of a way of creating your own opportunities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4403.27,4407.15"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely, absolutely. And, and the mentors would come and sit with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4407.19,4412.91"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e How did how did that come about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4414.07,4415.63"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e We were told, well, thanks to Golden State Mutual Life Insurance Company, formative in, in I think, some of the most wonderful art produced during the period. Uh, they had a big collection and their collector was was Bill Pajaud. And Bill Pajaud at that time was an artist. Uh, but he was, he was their public relations director person. And he was in New Orleans. Guy with a gift of gab for fun. Um, didn't hold back. Truth was on his mouth coming out of his mouth all the time. And so you take somebody like Bill Pajaud, who came to the Gallery and sat on the steps because there were stair steps at the gallery space. And then Charles White, who was teaching at Otis and had lived a whole world, um, aside from Bill Pajaud, there was like a super fantastic, you know, Unbelievable. And so now here you have these two mentors sitting on the step asking you about what, what do you plan to do and what, you know, the attitude of and what makes you think you can do it, which was a good test. But we were ready, you know, and we kept answering and, you know, saying honest things like, well, we don't know about this, but we we will manage it. And thanks to your help. Now come with us. And, and we did. We were able to, um, have a very symbiotic relationship with them for the rest of their entire lives. And, and even to say that inherited, uh, Charles White's son. I'm glad to be able to, like, make him a part of this story also because it's generational. Um, his name is Ian, and Ian is a piece of work himself, and he inherited his father's art collection and attitude and, and need and ability to communicate. Oh my goodness, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4417.51,4563.56"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I've seen you speak together at at Moca. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4563.6,4567.12"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah. We haven't missed a beat. I mean, you know, and, and, um. I'm the, I'm the person that says I don't want to rehearse. I do want to know what will be asked so that I can be, you know, as best prepared as I can. But there's something to be said for spontaneity. And so I'm feeling that as I'm talking about in a whole nother different generation, uh, different aesthetic, same goals. Um. close friend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4567.84,4607.44"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you say more about that, the goals?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4607.6,4609.927"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e The goal is to never be forgotten. And also the goal is despite your, um, your strength and or weaknesses, um, you must go on. Now, I say that not tongue in cheek, but I'm going to say that I'm saying that snake bite. Do snake bite because he's gone through, um, rattlesnake bite challenge. I don't know if you know anything about his life as a person living in Altadena that's got, I don't know, what do you call it? It's not. You have schools of animals and you have, what are snakes? They come in a large group. It's their, it's, it's their territory. So what are they called? What is that? That help me out here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4611.52,4667.28"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4668.96,4669.68"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e We'll figure it. Out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4670.36,4671.4"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e But the area behind his house where his dad purchased his house, two houses is a, um, rattlesnake infested area. And he was struck. He was bitten by a rattlesnake and was saved from the venom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4672.44,4698.4"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4698.84,4699.28"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, I have stories that, like, make your skin crawl, but they're there for a reason, right? And it's like the reason that. No, no, the reason is his importance to the legacy of the story that we are, you know, providing the audience. It's a sidebar, but it's like, ooh, wait a minute. Whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did, what did you just say? Well, I think a follow up interview would be wonderful for Ian. And there are other things that have taken place that given the proper research, you'll find out that he has been chosen to speak with people at the Huntington and other places like that. And, um. Uh, museum. I mean, you know, this generational.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4700.68,4759.48"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4759.68,4760.2"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Um.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4761.28,4761.92"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e So he kind of has roots in the African American community arts community in Altadena?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4762.28,4767.44"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4767.48,4768.08"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4768.68,4769.12"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely. And it's like what's, what's really kind of interesting and fundamental to the whole thing is like, as a group of people, African Americans are, like, so diverse. You don't know who you're talking to. You know, if you were to walk through the room, based on who I know, he presents himself, generally, you would kind of wonder, well, what kind of Native American person is that that's coming in here? He's not African American. Might be the question. But that also relates to how much do you know about African American history? How much do you really know about what makes us up as the group that we are? You know, because we're an interesting group, you know, and, um, as what's his name, Louis Gates. I mean, he's a perfect example of his study, his acumen, his brilliance to find out he has people. What is it? Laurel. Donald, I believe Laurel O'Donnell, who's like. Narrows. Bone blonde. Blue. Blue. Blue. Blue. Blue. Blue, blue eyes is his cousin. Let me roll my eyes again because I saw her recently speak, uh, on the program. And I'm going, wait a minute now, wait, isn't that isn't that. Oh, and then. And then my wife Doris reminded me. Yes. And did you remember that? I'm going to give her credit here in this part of the conversation. Do you remember that she is Henry Louis Gates first cousin? You know which is, which make you silent. You know, when you think about mankind, womankind, you know, we're all a part of this, this incredible, um, diverse, um, connected and very connected world of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4769.44,4917.09"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4918.01,4918.61"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e You know. And so, you know, I've gotten in trouble for, you know, with people of a certain kind of, uh, philosophical, philosophical persuasion that want to separate you for whatever their reason is, they want to separate you out from another group. And it's like, and then it's if you're not separated out, clean enough, clear enough the way they want you to be. Now you're what? Take your pick of words. Oh, you're just a sellout. Or you're not proud of your people or, you know, pick, pick your, pick your criticism and that, you know, those things have come my way and that'll make you strong. It'll also make you curse. But there's no cursing in this, this, uh, this broadcast. But as we smile at each other and I nod, you know, I have choice things to say. But I'm sticking to my, my principles about what I will say and how this will be remembered, because it is very important. And I don't want sidebar comments to be something that's like, remembered for too long. Like more than a not even a second, but, but the illusion of it is good enough for me. You know, it's like, I can speak an illusion. I recently found out that I can be as an artist, a surrealist illusion, because I was recently, just maybe, bring this forward. I was included in a show at the Whitney Museum that focused on surrealism. And I thought, oh, okay. Somebody, somebody wondering who, who is Dale Davis? But I also had the naysayers. Well, why? Why him? Why, Dale? Well, there's something about me. There's something that I've done that has forced my audience to, to have second looks, which is a gift. Oh, my goodness gracious. Um, and you don't know how your gifts will manifest themselves, but they will be manifested. You just have to be as ready as you can to receive it and to share it, and to be the person that runs the story. Because the person that runs the story is critical to the history. And my commitment is to the history and to, you know, all of those people that I have been gifted with to share the history, be a part of the history, you know. In all sincerity. So, you know, I take this very serious, but you also, also you have the advantage of the camera and you have me in front of you knowing when I'm smiling, when I'm almost laughing, when you know that I have a feeling he's probably holding back a little something. Yes. Because once again, what you project is what you know, what's going to be remembered. and that's important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=4918.65,5131.65"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, one of the things I think is so fascinating about your, your career is how you kind of like, you have this training as a ceramicist and an artist and then founding Brockman Gallery, and then you were also teaching, you had a long career as a teacher, and at the same time had your your own art practice, um, and your, your family life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5135.77,5162.244"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Just a bad attitude of don't tell me what I can do and not do. Um, that's that's a that's a fatal mistake. And I don't, you know, I'm not. I don't mean to come off mean, but but seriously, we have to be careful, you know, as as, uh, people, um. What are we seeing? What was it? Intent. What is your intent? Are you, are you true to your intent? You know, um, you have to be true to your intent. Otherwise, there's something fake. That's. It's false. It's like. Whoa, wait a minute. Now slow down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5163.33,5214.17"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that something that was was was constant for you? That one, one, uh, feeling of purpose, or is it something that changed over time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5215.53,5224.25"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Uh, I think that it was a part of me from the very, very beginning. The kid who was like, I don't need to talk. That innocent because they do all the talking. It's obvious that they, they're in charge. They're older, they're wiser. They, they talk all the time. That was my attitude. It was true. And it wasn't until, you know, the word came up. I was like, well, you know, quietly, you know, the boy doesn't talk. Well, in quiet and in quietness, there's like, there's fear that there's something wrong with your child. And it's like, okay, I understand it. And I guess in a way it was a gift to be challenged that way. Because look at me now. You can't get me to stop talking. So even though it came across as being disregarded, it could be the most uplifting statement experience that I maybe have ever had. You know, that's a that's a big statement that I've never really considered in this light, you know. Um, but fundamentally speaking, why not? Um. And being, being, you know. My attitude was, oh, they're totally happy with the older boy. He's fine. He's talking all the time, and he's over there, and he's doing this and he's doing that. Uh, people could kind of go off to the side and go, well, maybe, maybe you think you're a little bit jealous. I wasn't jealous, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't interested. And so I did the, um, um, unconventional things because there was nobody right there watching, going, you know what? Oh, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're only this age and, no, wait. No, you. You shouldn't be walking through, quote ,the cow field or an area that's like, not fenced that, you know, and some people are kind of going, well, where, where was he? Right. And I answered that too. It's like you don't, you don't know me. You don't know that. My lifestyle was, like out back. In a small town, in a, in a, in a college town, in an intellectual base town that's got all this other stuff going on. And he's left to be free. With nobody to tell him what to do. Oh, what a force field that was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5230.25,5412.38"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, that's, that's a real gift. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5413.5,5415.5"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e a real gift. And to be in areas because, you know, down the street or around the area, in the general area where, uh, we were where the house was, was a car dealership. Um. And that car dealership was also a place where they repaired cars, and they also changed motor oil in the same area. And so I was subject to first the smell of motor oil in the ground. And if you think about that now, you know, you, you, you, you come face forward to like, wait a minute. You're, you're talking about something that now is critical issue stuff, right? I'm, I'm four, five years old and I'm smelling raw oil in the ground and around me, and I'm walking in it in shoes, but I'm walking but sinking because oil and water is kind of like a quicksand kind of thing. You step in it and your foot drops. And I'm the little adventurous kid. It's like, oh, well, this is really different. I think I'm going to, you know, bury some, some treasure here. This is my imagination gone wild. And so I'm borrowing, what's it called? Um, not real jewelry. Um, costume jewelry that my mom has. And I'm thinking. And I'm in the zone of, you know, I'm an adventurer, and so I need you, I need jewels. And so I'm, I'm burying my mom's costume jewelry in this really rank area thinking that I can go back later and find it. What do you do with that? It was never, ever, ever, ever, ever to be found again because it sunk and went down and became part of what is called the landmass. Right. But from the point of view of the adventurous kid, I'm the pirate. I'm the anything that your imagination can, can flow into this storyline. Oh, I'm having big fun. Big fun. Big fun. Big fun. So, you know, that's a big aside about, you know, Dale the kid, Dale the child. Dale, the person that they're afraid, you know, had a learning handicap. And so, you know, when they came back with this, you know, we need to test him and these, you know, these were, you know, young African American intellectuals and, you know, all of us are like or could be or should be or possibly be afraid of the unknown and that your child has something that's out of the ordinary. So here, I'm here, I'm the one. So, you know, when word got out that, oh, yeah, we better have him tested. And they realized, oh, he's fine. And then they hear from me in a session. Oh, you all talk so much. I didn't find any need to talk, which was, like, blatantly blatant, child-like honesty. And I'm sure the gasp of breath from my parents was like, oh my goodness. Okay, so he is okay. He's still kind of a little wild creature. But aren't children always kind of like little wild creatures? Yeah. That's what makes you a child.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5415.5,5663.79"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It sounds like you were really soaking up your surroundings, too. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5664.47,5668.55"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, um, hit me with more questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5669.35,5674.75"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I'd love to, um, to talk with you more about your mother, Agnes Moses Davis and your aunt Louise J. Moses. I know that they were, um, kind of like a lifelong presence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5675.59,5689.55"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e They were. They became the parents. Mhm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5690.15,5692.55"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, and they became very involved with the gallery as well. And I believe they were both librarians. Both librarians very active in their profession. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5693.27,5703.91"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e they were, they were, they were forward thinking, um, understanding that southern background back, you know, uh. Experience a need to break out, show leadership, be demanding. Be heard. Be in your face if necessary. Two different styles. Uh. At the time, um, my mom was the one who seemed like she said the most, but she and my aunt, um, would always have these conferences in the back room, and the door would be closed. It meant to be theirs. Their conference. And I'm sure, you know, we were subject, subject of the conferences. And you know what? These boys, you know, I'm not sure what they're doing, but. Okay. Um, and we convinced them that, uh, we were going to open the gallery no matter what, and they were saying, no, you need to, you need to go to graduate school because you don't know what you're doing. And we were like, no, no, no, we've had enough school. We've already shown that we can perform. And so, you know, that in their face was like, ooh, we're going to have to take this with them, you know. And notice I said with them. And so they didn't, they didn't push back on us. They became your absolute perfect sponsors. Uh, my mom was a city librarian. Child librarian. And my aunt was a county librarian. And they both went back to school. And they both had master's degrees, and they both knew that they were attending to, uh, to be in that because they knew through their childhood what it, what it's like to team work any and everything. And so you just didn't know what you had. And so they brought all of their group, the county librarians of the city, of the county, the city librarians became their friends. And so we built a history of inclusion. And we knew the importance of, if you have an event, you need a place to have it. So it didn't matter if it was a conflicting sorority because they were also sorority girls, you know, or not sorority at all. But that represented, um, camaraderie. It represented more people. And, you know, the gift of more people is more exposure. And the gift of all of that was more help with what Alonzo and Dale are doing as the gallery owners and runners and, you know, um. And then as a sidebar, you know, Alonzo and I got along famously. We were business. You know, it's like couples like, well, you don't want to mess with them because, well, first of all, they're two of them. And then second of all, they're different from each other. And so we had our Dale people and we had our Alonzo people. And so Alonzo and I were smart enough to know we cannot speak to just everybody, that the people who love you, they should be your clients, your contact. And so if, if a certain individual we saw coming down the street was an Alonzo person, I would signal to him, I'm leaving. I'll be back. Leave by the back door. Disappear. Come back later. He would work with the person that was not a Dale person and vice versa. Which was, like, so smooth, so perfect, so perfect. And they didn't know. And it wasn't their business to know, you know. It was their business to conduct business with us as, oh yeah, those are the Brockman brothers. Or, you know, that's the Brockman gallery. And this is what they do. And, segway, part of what we do is we we branched out from Gallery to Brockman Gallery Productions, which was, um, great move to make because it opened up a whole nother arena of people. And I think the gift of Productions was to include people who were gifted with, uh, what now probably is, uh, maybe kind of like a common sense thing to do, which are grants writers. Because now it's like everybody needs a grant writer. Well, then we didn't know anything about grants writers, but we sure learned about grants writers because we had to hire grant writers. And so we were able to have a team of talented people who, that's all they did was write grants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5704.87,6069.92"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, wow. These were freelancers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6070.2,6073.76"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Freelancers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6075.08,6076.04"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e What kinds of grants?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6076.4,6077.6"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the the grant of all grants was NEA, National Endowment of the Arts grants, but it was tricky. You had to spend the money before they would give you the money. What do you do with that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6078.2,6089.88"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I know the Catch-22.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6093.0,6095.689"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a Catch-22. But because we'd already gone through Catch-22 circumstances in life, it's like, excuse me. One step in front of another. Just keep moving forward. Mhm. And, and the people that you hire, honor them, pay them, praise them. Keep them, uh, feed off of what influences they have. Because we're all a part of this huge, uh, you know, depository of talent as man and womankind. And so that was that was a fundamental change in the direction of Brockman. And so, um, you know, we we found the people that had the gift of writing grants, which was like, wait, wait, why, how did you find them? Well, they found us. But you have to have a reputation that precedes you to be able to do some of those things, because they're not just waiting out there. Maybe they are, but it could get a little tricky if they're waiting for you and you don't know it. Which makes me think about, uh, people who knew about the Brockman Archive project before it became Brockman Archive project. And people would keep showing up, and it was like, well, who's this? Well, the word was out. There's somebody, and it's there, and it's, it's through the Mark Bradford grouping of people. He, he carried his own provenance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6095.88,6218.76"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e That was one grant that you received to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6221.96,6225.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e And. Mark Bradford was a product of the MacArthur Foundation grants. And that came about. And, you know, this is like sliding back. That came about because who was the first African American artist that I know of to receive a MacArthur Foundation grant? Right. And so I'm throwing that back at you, but I'm not expecting you to answer. But it's rhetorical because it's David Hammons. And so you see, the evolutionary cycles, like in having this talk with you in this conversation is like it's it's rolling. And it's like people that we knew then and it's people like David Hammons, Mark Bradford, who was a kid who was going and looking in the gallery and going, and this is, this is almost a quote from him. Oh, yeah. Uh, when, when I wasn't working, doing here with my mom, you know, like next door to where the the archive was built. Right on Leimert. He was going, he was looking in the window and going, oh, these are people of color in here. There's Black artists images in here. So, is it cyclical? You call it what you like? Is it revolutionary? Yes, it is. Is it appreciated? Absolutely. Does it continue to this day through this conversation that we're having now? Yes, it is. Am I a proud person that's still running his mouth. Yes, I am. Am I telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you whoever's in charge? Yes, I do, and it's so important that I be the person to speak, because my reputation is right here, right now. And given what I know about history, you let somebody else tell the story, and you're going to have another story. Definitely. Definitely. So I'm open for more questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6226.88,6388.2"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I love that kind of, like, connection. Or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6388.96,6390.76"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e any, or anything you need. It's like, I'm here. I'm open. I'm an open book. I'm an open, uh, microphone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6390.76,6397.76"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you. Um, I'd love to hear more about your memories of Leimert Park and that connection of the, the neighborhood community with the gallery. I think that kind of expanded even more after you started Brockman Gallery Productions and you had so many community programs happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6399.36,6417.96"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, we have community programs with other people's ideas pushing it. And so, we were not relying upon our own soul, uh, abilities. Now we have community. And so when you speak, when I speak, when you, when you should speak of community, you should look at it in its with its widest aperture because that's everybody. And then, what you do with everybody is based on, you know, what you can do as part of the leadership to expand it in a way that, um, is something you'll be proud of, something that is remarkable. So, you know, like, the, the events that would take place, the multicultural events, parades, Uh, things that are, have been documented. Um. Should be looked at again, should be reviewed, should be modeled because I don't know that I've seen it like this before. Not like, not like that. You know, their pieces and Leimert is such a perfect place for that to have happened, and to continue to happen, because it maintains an identity for our community. Because, as you know, I still live in the community. I can still walk. I don't do it, but I can still walk to the gallery. But I'm not here for glory, So I go almost in disguise. Because that's not who I am. Give me, what, give, give me the reality of what it is today. Right now. Don't color it a certain way. I'm not in for flavor, you know. I'm in for genuine, um, the genuine output. And so, you know, people are still trying to understand, you know, I don't know what they say about me, but I'm sure one of the things that they could be saying is, you know, he, he's kind of odd. Or he may be a lack of, lack of their ability to express themselves, or he's an interesting guy or person because he's not, he doesn't show off. I could show off. I could be a show off, but that would not be me. So I'm, I'm still the person that's like, um. Happy about showing up and not and not allowing myself to be known as the person or the, you know, so important to the community. But I realized that, that it's there. I don't shy away from that, you know, but I'm not in it for glory. I'm in it for the truth be told. Parts. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6418.0,6617.33"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, yeah. I think it's so, like, kind of poetic that, um, the gallery space is now where Art and Practice is located, which is one of Mark Bradford's, um, kind of gallery spaces or organizations. And so it's still kind of continuing. And I think I saw recently that the gallery is now, uh, a bookstore space. This is maybe in the past few months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6619.37,6647.53"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the old. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Right. The old gallery address space.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6648.37,6654.69"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6654.73,6655.33"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e So when you say the gallery space, I immediately think about the fact that we sublet. I think there were seven, maybe six, but they were a series of storefronts, and we sublet all but one. And so that showed an ability to, um, extend beyond the beyond. Step one. Right. And so, you know, we we settled, we rented, you know, we, we allowed other people to use the space to the best of their ability. Um, and then through Bradford Foundation and his, um. I'm forgetting what it's called. Um. You're not really allowed to know who, who owns it. Who runs it. It's a hidden, it's kind of a hidden ownership, leadership position, which is fascinating. I have thoughts about that. It's like, why not be forthcoming with everything? What's to hide? So, you know, I've, I still, I still have attitude.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6656.93,6740.13"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e You had kind of a close relationship with them working on starting the Brockman Gallery archive project at Art and Practice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6740.97,6749.379"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e So, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6750.57,6751.61"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you like to maybe talk a little bit more about that and how, how that project evolved and what led you to the decision to donate the Brockman Gallery archive to the Los Angeles Public Library?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6751.65,6762.845"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e And I'm glad you mentioned that. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6763.41,6766.53"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6766.57,6766.97"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, once, you know, I was going there and I was doing this as a volunteer, and, um, I'd retired and I had mentioned to my wife, Doris, that I'm retired. I'm so glad. I don't want to be bothered with this and that and nothing art related. Um, and then now I'm, I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, but, but now there's the archive project, and now they need me there. But yet, but now and now. And so now it's like, no, you're not spending, excuse me an hour or two, now you're spending like half a day at a time because that's how much, how much work there was to do it to archive all of this. Early acknowledgement of what archiving became and is and your responsibilities to it and, and what can happen within an archive not our Los Angeles Public Library archive, but other. And I say that because people, people know more than than they tell you they know. And so they're, they're taking notes. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Now you have do, you have an interest? And I'm sensing this, you know, beyond just basic I don't know really who you are, but you're here and you're asking a lot of questions. And so that's like triggering. Oh, you're asking a lot of questions because you want something and there's that, you know, intuitive nature. That's like I've been here before. I have lived this life before. I need to think about what my mother had told me. Be aware of where you are and who's watching and what's not being said, but being, being demonstrated. And so the people who were coming to see what we were doing were, um, other people. So part of the other people included, uh, the Getty Archive. And they were, you know, this is kind of like a dance. And so they were, they were there and they were looking. And they were noting. And I'm sophisticated enough not to note that they're noting. So they don't know that I'm noting that they're noting this kind of play on words. But no, this is, it's all become like, this is like real life serious. And so now they invite me to get, invite me to come and introduce myself and, um, present. And I'm thinking, there's something not right going on. And the first indication was the host was so nice. Treats, bubbly beverages. Water. And then when it was time to go and see the actual archive that they had. They cleared the table. All the treats disappeared. So when I came back to the original room, there was nothing there from the initial interview, and I was like, oh my. And I was, because I had, you know, thought about some of the things that had gone on in my life in the past in terms of people that were not forthcoming and honest all the time, I realized, okay, you can't take notes. You have to remember this. And so the first thing I did when the interview and all the promises were made to go to the car and sit for a good 30, 40 minutes and write everything that I remembered from the time I first got there until the time I left. And it was like, you know, deal. You're going to be okay because you had sense enough not to bite into the archive. and that you have choices. And when when the library came and said, here's a possibility, it was like, there was no choice. It was only one choice, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6767.25,7074.26"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7074.3,7074.66"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e Only one choice. And because I live with librarians, I mean, what choice are you going to make? It was, like, so fortuitous, so ingrained, that there was no choice. And that's not, that's not said in a negative way at all. It's like the most positive way of saying the finest compliment that I can give you and share with you is that there was no choice. Intention, to me, is everything. And so. We, we have intently and we are intentionally grateful as we continue to journey and the journey continues. You know, because here we are, right here, right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7074.7,7119.82"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Did your decision to donate the archive to the library, um, tie in to how you would like the archive to be used, or what were your intentions?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7121.38,7131.42"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e The intention was to make it public. We were public characters, you know. I mean, we were, we were, you know, we were public guys. We were public people. We worked for the public. And so it was like, the intent was, was purposeful. It's like, there's no other way to look at this other than it should be of and for the people. And in the fact that, I mean, I think one of the winning points was that age didn't matter. I'm a kid person. I'm basically a big older kid. Right. And it's like you don't care about the kids then. Oh, wait, who do you care about? You know, who are we talking to? What? You know what? You know. What are we doing here? You know, that's maybe. You know, if I have to, like, go back to that, to have that clarified, then we, are we going back to, you know, point A, now we can't go back to point A, horse out of the barn, chicken out of the coop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep me in my element because, you know, uh, I plan to be around a while, and I'm reminded that, I'm reminded of that, you know, because, uh, you know, grandson is ten. About to be 11. I have a granddaughter that's now at, uh, uh, Marymount. Loyola. Loyola Marymount. Doing well and, you know. and the oldest first kid that came as part of the family grouping, he's doing well and and understanding. He has two sets of families. That's that's life. You know, awkward at first, but, you know, when he showed up for an event, you know, just a few days ago, it was like, oh, this is, this is like yesterday when you're, we all tend to be not necessarily fearful but cautious about the unknown. And, and with kids, with young people you don't always know, don't make any grand assumptions. You know, keep hitting it day by day. Keep one step in front of the other. Yeah, one step in front of another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7132.46,7276.71"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we're kind of getting to the last minutes of our interview. And thank you so much for being here and for this wonderful conversation. Um, I just wanted to ask if there's anything else you'd like to add. And then we have our final question, if you'd like to answer it, about, um, how would you like to be remembered?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7279.27,7299.67"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e I had to think about that one. And I actually wrote down a few, a few things. Um. I came up with a few basic words. Um, I would like to be remembered as somebody who was dedicated. I would like to be remembered as somebody who's focused. I would like to be remembered as somebody who was disciplined and for the brevity and the lightness of it all but the seriousness that abuts it. Uh, and I wrote this down to make sure I didn't mess it up. I am a man who doesn't accept wooden nickels, and that's in quotes, which is slang for worthless or fake, which was a 1930s promotion. And then I read a little further in my research because I am a research person. That actually the statement about, uh, wooden nickels started in 1915 as something to be aware of, something to be, uh, not assumed, you know, details about. So take me there, take me there. I'll be there. I'll be there smiling. Yeah. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7304.43,7395.71"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eRosemarie Knopka:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you so much, Dale. I really appreciate this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7396.11,7398.99"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/transcript/91342/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDale Brockman Davis:\u003c/strong\u003e You're welcome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7399.55,7400.19"}]},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Auto-generated Index (2025-12-31 19:09:36) [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Introduction and Early Life in Tuskegee","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=0.0,208.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker introduces himself, stating his full name, year of birth, and birthplace in Tuskegee, Alabama. He reflects on the unique environment of Tuskegee as a college town shaped by the legacies of Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver. The speaker shares how growing up in this context influenced his worldview and set the stage for his later experiences.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=0.0,208.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family Background, Religion, and Parental Influence","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=208.0,384.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker describes his family's religious diversity, with a Catholic father and Methodist mother, and exposure to Episcopal traditions. He discusses the impact of his parents' professions—his father as a professor and his mother as a librarian—on his upbringing. The narrative touches on the complexities of family life, including the eventual separation and divorce of his parents, and how these experiences shaped his understanding of relationships and personal growth.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=208.0,384.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Childhood Curiosity, Sibling Dynamics, and Parental Divorce","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=384.0,783.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker recalls his early curiosity and independence as a child in Tuskegee, often exploring the outdoors and observing his parents' communication styles. He discusses his relationship with his older brother Alonzo, the challenges of being the younger sibling, and the impact of their parents' divorce. The speaker reflects on how these formative experiences influenced his approach to life and relationships.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=384.0,783.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Educational and Occupational History of Parents and Family Legacy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=783.0,1446.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Prompted by the interviewer, the speaker delves into the educational and occupational backgrounds of his parents and extended family. He highlights the significance of growing up in an intellectually rich environment, surrounded by well-educated family friends and the broader Tuskegee community. The speaker also shares the profound influence of George Washington Carver on his life, emphasizing the importance of historical role models and lifelong learning.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=783.0,1446.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brockman Gallery Archive Project and Decision to Donate to LAPL","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1446.0,1482.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker recounts his involvement in the Brockman Gallery Archive Project, the process of archiving materials, and interactions with institutions like the Getty. He describes the decision-making process that led to donating the archive to the Los Angeles Public Library, influenced by his family's librarian background and a desire for public accessibility. The speaker highlights the importance of intention and trust in preserving history.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1446.0,1482.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family Migration to California and Early Experiences","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1482.0,1761.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker recounts the family's migration from Alabama to California, prompted by his parents' separation. He describes the secrecy surrounding the move, the role of summers spent in Birmingham with his aunts, and the societal expectations placed on women in the South. The narrative includes reflections on changing gender roles and the evolving understanding of identity.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1482.0,1761.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Arrival in Los Angeles, Neighborhoods, and Family Support Network","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=1761.0,2510.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Upon arriving in Los Angeles, the speaker describes the family's transition through Birmingham and the support provided by extended family, particularly his Uncle Stephen Moses (Uncle Bud). He explains the significance of the 'red cap' role in the context of racial segregation and how family connections helped them adapt to their new environment. 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Uncle Bud's intelligence, wisdom, and insights into finance and investments left a lasting impression. The speaker also discusses his father's unconventional views on property ownership and how these family attitudes shaped his own perspectives on education and financial matters.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2510.0,2773.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schooling in Los Angeles and Cultural Diversity","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2773.0,2928.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker describes his experiences attending public school in Los Angeles after moving from Alabama. He highlights the cultural diversity of his new environment, particularly the presence of Japanese American classmates and the importance of maintaining cultural heritage. The narrative explores the differences between neighborhoods and the speaker's growing awareness of multiculturalism and social dynamics in Los Angeles.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2773.0,2928.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family Dynamics and Transition to Leimert Park","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2928.0,3442.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker discusses the family's move to Leimert Park, the challenges of adapting to a new neighborhood, and the evolving family dynamics. 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The narrative captures the complexities of adjusting to change and the importance of resilience.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=2928.0,3442.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Relationship with Brother Alonzo and Founding of Brockman Gallery","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=3442.0,4403.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker explores his relationship with his brother Alonzo, acknowledging their differences and the ways they complemented each other. 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He discusses the importance of intent, authenticity, and staying true to one's purpose. 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He addresses misunderstandings about his quietness and how his parents' concerns were alleviated when he expressed himself honestly. The narrative underscores the value of childhood exploration and the development of self-confidence.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5413.0,5675.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Role of Mother Agnes and Aunt Louise in Family and Gallery","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5675.0,6078.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker discusses the pivotal roles his mother Agnes and aunt Louise played in his life and the Brockman Gallery. Both were librarians and highly educated, bringing organizational skills, leadership, and a network of professional contacts to support the gallery. Their teamwork, forward-thinking attitudes, and community involvement were instrumental in the gallery's success and its inclusive approach.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=5675.0,6078.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Brockman Gallery Productions, Grant Writing, and Community Expansion","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6078.0,6648.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker describes the expansion of the gallery into Brockman Gallery Productions, which enabled broader community engagement and access to funding through grants. He explains the challenges of grant writing, the importance of hiring skilled grant writers, and the role of external support in sustaining the gallery's activities. The narrative also touches on the involvement of figures like Mark Bradford and the cyclical nature of artistic influence.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6078.0,6648.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Leimert Park Community, Legacy, and Personal Approach to Recognition","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6648.0,7132.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker reflects on the ongoing legacy of the Brockman Gallery in Leimert Park, noting its transformation into new community spaces such as Art + Practice and a bookstore. He discusses his personal approach to recognition, preferring authenticity over public acclaim, and emphasizes the importance of community identity and continuity. The speaker values the genuine impact of his work over personal glory.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=6648.0,7132.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intentions for the Archive and Reflections on Legacy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7132.0,7279.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The speaker explains that his primary intention for the archive was to ensure public access and benefit, reflecting his commitment to community service. He discusses the importance of including all ages and making history available to everyone. The narrative includes reflections on family, the unpredictability of life, and the ongoing journey of legacy and remembrance.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7132.0,7279.0"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Final Reflections and How Dale Wants to Be Remembered","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7279.0,7403.75467"},{"id":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687/index/91227/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As the interview concludes, the speaker shares his thoughts on how he wishes to be remembered. He emphasizes qualities such as dedication, focus, discipline, and authenticity, referencing the phrase 'doesn't accept wooden nickels' to signify his commitment to honesty and substance. The speaker expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his story and hopes to be remembered for his integrity and contributions.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://lapl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2796/collection_resources/166945/file/303687#t=7279.0,7403.75467"}]}]}]}